Last night, I decided to go hang out in my favorite coffee shop for a while. I found a prime parking spot, and decided to go into the pharmacy to pick up something first. On my way in to the pharmacy, I heard a homeless-looking guy telling someone else that he was trying to get enough money to take a cab out to Shelburne (which is about a 15-20 minute drive).
While I was in the store, I decided that there wasn’t any reason why I couldn’t give that guy a ride. I mean, I wasn’t going that way, but I wasn’t doing anything very important, either.
So, when I went back out, I asked him if he wanted a ride. He said, yes, and thanked me. Then he said, “Wow, someone just prayed over me…”
I cut him off (yes, I cut him off), and said, “Well, I don’t believe in god.”
He said that it didn’t matter whether or not I believed. I said that I believe in coincidence, and I happened to hear him say he needed a ride to Shelburne.
If I had my wits about me at the time, I should have added, while that guy was praying for you, I decided to actually I do something to help.
Now that I think about it, it kind of irritates me that the praying got any credit whatsoever in the situation. It’s not like god did a damn thing. If god wanted to work through someone, that Christian would have given the guy a ride, not the atheist.
I’m not trying to say that Christians don’t do anything other than pray, but it did remind me of this demotivational poster.
I have to say that I find the atheist way of helping – actually doing something – more useful.
Too bad god still got the credit.
Hello!
What does it matter, Ms. Tensel, what the man thought? Did you even ask him what he meant? And was he in fact homeless, as you suspected? Is he still homeless? What, you mean you did not find a home for him, too? Surely you could have done that; surely you SHOULD have found him a home — unlike those Christians out there who, well, DO NOTHING.
Here’s your argument proper:
“Now that I think about it, it kind of irritates me that the praying got any credit whatsoever in the situation. It’s not like god did a damn thing. If god wanted to work through someone, that Christian would have given the guy a ride, not the atheist.”
How stupid is God? He is, no doubt, a freaking idiot: Some Christian somewhere afar off prays for his homeless brother, a brother no one in the family has heard from in years, and you come along and not only help that brother, you summarily denounce him for being a theist. How charitable. How human. How thoughtful. How non-judgmental. Yeah, God IS a blithering idiot.
And yet, of course, there is no God, just a bunch of people walking about in the darkness of their own invented personal universes. Each pursues what he or she can; each finds meaning according to his or her own inner voice, or inner moral compass; what is meaningful and purposive and important differs from one man to the next.
And then comes the atheist with the intellect full of clarity. The one who sees all illusions — and denounces them — despite holding that there is no “one meaning or purpose except what one creates for oneself.” The atheist is here — to help. To give a ride. To explain religion in one fell swoop: “It is all delusion! I have good news, theists, a better way: There is no god, only yourself. Create meaning as you see fit; create your own purpose. But whatever you do, don’t create for yourself meaning that includes God, Christ, or anything like what we atheists renounce! You’re just deluding yourselves!”
Thanks for the ride.
Peace.
First, let me start by saying, I was not making any sort of argument; I was merely sharing a story about something that happened in my life and my reflections thereof. I am not here to argue anyone into changing their beliefs. My blog – my personal weblog – is a telling of my experiences after leaving Christianity, and my reflections on living life as an atheist in a very Christian culture.
That said, since you are obviously concerned about this allegedly homeless man, rest assured that I did, in our 20 minute drive, manage to find out that, yes, he was homeless, but he was in the process of moving into a place. See, we have a strong community social safety net here in Burlington. It’s not perfect, and it can’t help everyone every time, but it’s pretty darn good.
And, to clarify, another person walking by prayed over him, not a family member. A person, just like me, walked by and offered up a prayer. I walked by and offered up a ride. I’m not saying that the plural of anecdote is data, nor that Christians do nothing ever, and I stated as much in my post.
Also, lest you fear that the evil atheist was able to steal this man’s soul, or whatever it is we do, we did talk about religion. He’s not even a Christian, so most of your brothers-in-Christ think he’s going to hell anyway. I didn’t sway – nor try to sway – his beliefs, nor he mine. We had a friendly, open discussion about our views. That’s what people do, when they are secure in their beliefs.
Stating that I don’t believe in god is not an attempt to bring the other person into my cold, dark, godless world, devoid of meaning; it is my attempt at having boundaries for myself. I had a bad – and in some ways traumatizing – religious experience. Why must I be forced to endure being preached at, while forcing a smile? I have done that for the past two-and-a-half years, and I decided that I don’t have to.
OK.
“It’s not like god did a damn thing. If god wanted to work through someone, that Christian would have given the guy a ride, not the atheist.”
So, what you’re saying is that some guy stops and prays over a Burlington homeless man, and that such praying is really doing nothing, while you actually did something. What does this even mean?
Obviously, there is no way to determine causality here; empirical verification of prayer’s effects is impossible. But so is much that is physical; to hell with the metaphysical, it is impossible to empirically verify the causes of many physical ‘effects’.
But you seem to know a lot about the man who did the praying. I wonder, though, how you KNOW he was able to do something for the homeless man but didn’t, choosing instead the allegedly lazy route of prayer? How do you know the man who did the praying wasn’t blind, lame, infirm; or heading to help a grieving mother or babysit for a needy family? You, or so you boast, actually DID something. I applaud you for your kindness. But you have no idea what actually HAPPENED. You have no real information about the pray-er; you’ve not entered that man’s world to know what he could or could not do. At best, you have hearsay, the mere report of a man you helped, a man so astonished that he said to you — a perfect stranger who has appeared like an answer to prayer — “Wow. Someone just prayed over me and …” And you cut him off. Why?
Prima facie, it looks like God DID do something.
There are only two possible facts. Either God exists or He doesn’t. If He doesn’t, then He is a delusion, fantasy or fable. That’s it. That’s all we have.
But if God doesn’t exist, on what basis do you cut off the person you’re trying to be nice to? Who cares that a homeless man believes in God — suddenly — at your appearance? The thought might comfort him; it might make his life more interesting, meaningful or hopeful. It may keep him from hanging himself, or punching little children. It may be a fiction, but so what? Is the brutal truth any more MEANINGFUL than his fantasy? Really? On what basis do we determine that?
I am offering simply one view here, and it is this: If meaning is personal, unique to each person, and you agree with this; and if meaning and purpose are something each of us — as atheists — must construct for ourselves TO ourselves, so that we may enjoy life as individuals; then why — why! — would how a THEIST creates meaning for himself — the guy who prays over homeless people — be of any interest to you? It’s what gives HIM meaning! Believing in the efficacy of prayer, if only for a moment, gave a homeless man a sense of value; of being loved or wanted or cared for. Isn’t that lovely? It doesn’t matter if it’s not YOUR meaning, or what would be lovely for you. What matters is HIS sense of meaning.
Atheism gives ALL of us permission to create whatever we wish in order to find meaning and purpose in life. ANY ideology is legitimate; any thought is permitted. And here’s the kicker: Atheism even gives us permission to create frameworks of meaning that include sharing that meaning with others. After all, if what is meaningful to me includes sharing that meaningfulness with others, well, so be it.
Now allow me to end with a seeming contradiction: Atheism permits all of us to find meaning in denigrating the belief systems of others. In other words, atheism, by definition, MUST allow anyone who wishes to traumatize others with their zeal, opinion; with what is meaningful for THEM. If a man finds exquisite pleasure in skinning cats… well, that’s not my line, but you get the point: If preaching to others is meaningful to the man on the soapbox, well, it is what it is.
I hope you see the moral and intellectual conundrum atheism provides. There is no liberty even in skepticism. If meaning is personally invented — which it MUST be for atheists — then a strident atheist can’t decry one person’s meaning because it lacks a proper or true meaning. And if purpose is individually invented, as atheists argue, then it is absurd to denounce certain inventions for not conforming to some prescribed concept of purpose.
Sadly, this all can only lead to solipsism.
Peace to you, Ms. Charity.